CHF Canada: Co-op Talk

This blog is hyper-lined to additional information. Some information is currently under review, and some links may be broken at this point in-time.

 

In Ken's view, CHF Canada Co-op Talk was established in 2000 and was deactivated in March 2013 due to very low traffic in the public area of Co-op Talk discussion boards with the exception of the private staff meeting room.

 

From the Archives of CHF Canada: Co-op Talk, some selected messages posted for your review: 

 

ANONYMOUS posted message on January 21, 2004 

"Can someone please tell me, do the by-laws of a co-op over ride policies and procedures? If something is not written in the by-laws can the board enforce it?" 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on January 21, 2004 

"First you must follow the laws of the province/country. Next you need to be sure you are not violating any provision of your Articles of Incorporation. Then you check your by-laws and if none of these contradict Board policies the Board can do pretty much as they wish."

DAVID HOWARD posted message on February 25, 2005 

"To return to the issue of outside arbitration and board behaviour, I would like to say in response to Stephen that my experience is that co-ops routinely resolve disputes satisfactorily without any help whatsoever."...

 

"But what to do about boards that get out of control and the sectors role?..."There is no "Co-op Police" even though that might seem desirable sometimes." 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on February 25, 2005 

"Thank goodness there are no "Co-op Police". That isn't what co-operation is about. We take the time to look for broader solutions for the most part. That is why I favour the idea of an ombudsperson rather than arbitrator."..."I also want to echo what David said about forgetting to be positive."...

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on February 28, 2005 

"I just wanted to add a word of thanks to everyone who is participating in this discussion. It is great to have a forum to raise really key issues and debate them openly."...

 

"In the same vein, it has taken personal experiences and witnessing how off course things can go to understand that there are real injustices happening in some co-ops. We can say as a movement that there are only a few of these instances and we don't need to address them. We can say that the exception of a few bad apples proves the worth of the barrel of good apples. It doesn't feel right to me though, to leave good people struggling through difficult issues of injustice without there being a sector response that is meaningful. I would hatr to see some politician get it into his or her head to legislate some mechanism to address these problems."...

 

"For me I think an ombudsperson is the answer. Any other ideas...?" 

 

KEN HUMMEL posted message on February 28, 2005 

"Hello everyone; I'm new to the Co-op message board, but have been a member of a Co-op since 1992. I feel that it is time to commence a derivative action against director's and officer's at the Co-op. I have made every effort to find a solution to the remaining outstanding issues with the Board..."...

 

"the auditor is not co-operating. I had contacted the Police, CMHC, and Minister Fontana (Ya, it's a long, long story). Director's and officer's have been accused of corruption and incompetence. The misconduct and dishonesty is outrageous."...

 

STEPHEN PIPE psted message on March 1, 2005 

"Dave, the stuff about Legal disputes was a generality and not about Co-ops in particular. The courts are full of examples where intervention, mediation, arbitration and other forms of dispute/problem resolution have failed. 

 

In the absence of a Board willing to ask for help resolving their member problems or problem members, it seems the Courts are our only recourse. See the posting above from Mr. Hummel as a case in point. As individual members, who care about what is going on and want to make things better for everyone, we stand alone and must fight for justice. Otherwise, we become just another disgruntled "move out". How many people have had to leave their homes and communities because they don't have the resources to know and fight for their rights? Do any Co-ops do MEMBER EXIT INTERVIEWS? I wish Mr. Hummel every success. We, the members, apparently need the media/political exposure and legal precedents."...

 

"This has always been about the "bad apples". ...      

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on April 2, 2005

"I am very concerned by your posts Ken. It was good of you to fax me the documents that you said you would, but what a disappointment given the serious allegations you repeatedly make on this forum.

I expected to see police reports that confirmed that their investigations found fraud, given how often you accuse staff and board members of this crime. It is clear from your materials that you have contact the police.

I expected to see a damming report from CMHC and even some indication that they would be taking action to rectify the terrible abuses you accuse your co-op of perpetrating.

What do I see?

Page after page of accusations produced by you without any evidence at all. You can write hundreds of accusations out Ken, but at some point there has to be a simple thing called evidence for your allegations. I see none!

I don't understand how you can time after time come on this forum and accuse your co-op of the things you do when, in a letter signed by you and faxed by you to me you state:

"It should be noted that once Ms. Lori M. Wheeler assumed the position of Office General Manager and Co-ordinator as of September 8, 2000 most of stated (sic) infractions of the Act's, and Co-op by-laws have been corrected. I believe the administrative and organizational skill Ms. Wheeler demonstrates in the overall management of the Co-op is exemplar, and her dedication to the Co-op movement. In my opinion Lori demonstrates Leadership, Integrity, and Perseverance."

I have never suggested that anyone posting to this forum be precluded from doing so before, but from what I see posted here there is no real evidence for anything but the administrative slips that an overworked staff person and voluteer board might from time to time make.

The fact of the matter is that you don't appear to have been able to prove anything. You don't have the support of your fellow members and so you are bringing this garbage to Co-op Talk, smearing the reputation and good name of your Co-operative and taking up a lot of good space here that would be better spent on positive matters that build this movement."

KEN HUMMEL posted message on April 3, 2005

"Response to Robert: In regards to your two posts on April 2, 2005- around 10:52 pm. Consider the following facts: I still live at this Co-op 5-years after making serious accusations and allegations, and I have not been evicted or had any legal action commenced against me by the Co-op in regards to any of my statements or accusations.

Evidence: I have documentation that exceeds 1,000 pages, my documentation and brief synopsis outlines some of this evidence that was supplied to you, and you fail to acknowledge this. Robert, don't mislead people in this forum by misrepresenting anything that I have stated. Robert stated "I expected to see police reports that confirmed that their investigations found fraud, given how often you accuse staff and board members of this crime:. Robert, I never made any accusations of fraud, only allegations. The Police turned their investigation over to CMHC.

Robert stated "I expected to see a damning report from CMHC and even some indication that they would be taking action to rectify the terrible abuses you accuse your co-op of perpetrating". Robert, it is obvious to me that you don't understand the time-line that I presented in my documentation and synopsis. Between September 8, 2000 when the new office manager and coordination was hired and prior to me contacting CMHC on February 6, 2004 & March 20, 2004, I provided the Co-op plenty of time to correct many of the issues that I had made accusations and allegations.

Robert stated 'but from what I see posted here there is no real evidence for anything but administrative slips that an overworked staff person and voluteer board might from time to time make". Robert A. Wiseman, you're statement is totally outrageous and ridiculous when you consider my posts on March 31, 2005-6:03 pm, April 2, 2005-10:31 am, and April 2, 2005-11:20 am.

Robert, you should be concerned about my posts because it is my opinion that "YOU" can't handle the truth, and it appears that you prefer to ignore or dismiss problem boards or Co-op that I discuss here. Robert would just play it safe and spend his time focused only on positive matters."

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on April 3, 2005

..."Now Ken, you come on here and make all kinds of nasty allegations against your co-op. In fact, you sent me a letter that you sent to the Durham Regional Police on February 13, 2004. That was a year ago.

I want to note that if the 1,000 pages you claim you have are like the roughly 23 pages you faxed to me, 950 of the pages are written by you outlining what you believe is wrong, the other 50 would be documents that acknowledge receipt of your letters or outline why what you 'demand' is'nt going to be forthcoming.

Again I repeat...you have sent me  NO EVIDENCE, only allegation after allegation. I look at your posts cited this date and again, NO EVIDENCE.

Ken, I say this reluctantly, but nevertheless as positively as I can - put up or shut up."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEN'S COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO MR. ROBERT A. WISEMAN'S MESSAGES

AT THE POINT-IN-TIMES THESE MESSAGES WERE POSTED, IT WAS NOT NECESSARY NOR PRACTICAL TO SUPPLY THE EVIDENCE TO ONLY ONE PERSON THAT APPEARED TO BE NOT NEUTRAL AND AN ADVOCATE FOR CO-OP HOUSING.

CHF CANADA AND THE ADMINISTRATOR'S OF CO-OP TALK DELETED SOME OF MY POSTED MESSAGES, SUSPENDED MY POSTING PRIVILEGES AND SOON AFTER BANNED ME FOR LIFE FROM POSTING MESSAGES ON CO-OP TALK.

SINCE THAT POINT-IN-TIME, I (KEN) HAVE POSTED MUCH OF MY **EVIDENCE** ON KEN'S SITE FOR EVERYONE TO VIEW AND MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.

SINCE I (KEN) **PUT UP** THE **EVIDENCE** AND ONGOING PROBLEMS AT THE HOUSING CO-OP, 

MR. ROBERT A. WISEMAN HAS **SHUT UP**

 CLICK HERE And CLICK HERE to access links to other information

 

 DAVID HOWARD message posted on April 18, 2005 

"The site administrators will remove all postings listed in my April 15, 2005 list. Some people have requested that the posts be edited for content. Editing the posts was considered, but will require more time and resources than I can offer this site as a volunteer. The postings listed will be moved to another hidden string and can be replaced if enough members request it. 

 

Moreover, all postings from Ken Hummel where he has made allegations of illegal or immoral behaviour on the part of his co-op will be moved. His postings that were an attempt to provoke argument for its own sake have also been removed. 

 

Moreover, I have asked our staff to have  Mr. Hummel disqualified from posting here in the future. It has become very apparent that Mr. Hummel refuses to accept any direction from the moderator or from other members here. I believe that his postings are libelous. Moreover, I think he is simply trying to be disruptive and finds it amusing to annoy the other members at this site. 

 

I think that we have all been very patient with the tone and content of the postings at this site in recent months. In fact, I would go as far as to say that we have been too patient. In the future, I will try to be quicker to act when it comes to anti-social behaviour at Co-op Talk. After all, this resource belongs to all the members and we need to reclaim this space." 

 

DAVID HOWARD posted message on April 19, 2005 

"Apart from Mr. Hummell, no one else has lost their right to take part in these rooms. If anyone wants to restate previous points from postings that have been removed, I hope they will feel welcome to do that. Of course, I know that these members will be mindful our new approach to these discussions as stated in some of my earlier postings. 

 

Peace" 

 

STEPHEN PIPE posted message on April 19, 2005 

"The tribe has spoken! Fair enough!"...  

 

KEN HUMMEL posted message on December 16, 2005 

"Ms. Robson: My posed message 12/15/05-10:13am. You have only answered only 2/6 of my questions. Please try once again, and answer all my questions. Thank you. 

Have a nice day." 

 

DAVID HOWARD message posted on December 16, 2005 

"Ken, 

No one here is obligated to answer every question that pops into your head. Merrilee has been politely answering your questions thus far, but I find your tone in the message above condescending. People here have been very patient with you Ken, but you will find that patience ending quickely if you expect us to jump for you. 

Moderate your tone. And you can also skip the "have a nice days" as they fool no one." 

 

KEN HUMMEL message posted on December 17, 2005 

"Mr. Howard: I have been quite polite, and have shown curtsey to everyone, and I will continue to do so. I expect to be treated in the same manor. Any suggestion that I have acted out of charactor and been condescending to anyone is indeed absurd. 

I will continue to be patient with Ms. Robson, CHF Canada's National Communications Officer. My thoughtful and well-reasoned questions are fair and valid. David, please explain to all the folks on Co-op Talk what you mean by asking me to moderate my tone. 

Have a nice day." 

 

KEN HUMMEL posted message on December 18, 2005 

"Mr. Wiseman: Thank you for the additional information, as this helps me narrow down a list of articles that you may be referring too. Bob, would you confirm or deny that the series by the Toronto Star, was "Housing millions down the drain" Published on May 20, 1995. 

 

Have a nice day" 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on December 18, 2005 

"Would I "...confirm or deny..." Ken? What is this - a cross examination? 

 

That sounds like the right series and the right time of printing." 

 

GINO GAMBOA posted message on December 19, 2005 

"jajaja...good one Bob..." 

 

JACKIE KENT posted message on December 28, 2005 

"A lot of complexity goes into the making of our personalities. It seems the meant to be pleasant phrase "Have a nice day" is not perceived as pleasing to all.

I have read different postings by Ken, and would not assume a judgment position on his value system by his posting techniques.

I do feel Ken has a handicap coming on to Co-op talk. He is a mere member with no board experience and a multitude of questions he would like answers to."...

"Perhaps this is why Ken has never sat on the board or he may feel he has more affect as the Co-op Watchdog or the group does not have the foresight of keeping their friends close and their enemies closer."..."Co-ops are not guaranteed to be successful because they use the educational tools or have paid staff."...

 

KEN HUMMEL posted message on December 30, 2005 

"Ms. Kent: If I have any "handicap coming on to Co-op Talk" it may result from a lack of understanding, respect or communication inside this forum with some of its participants. I have been a co-op member since 1992. People that know me personally or have been acquainted with me over the years, understand my dedication to the Co-op Principles, as an unpaid volunteer. I believe that I have served my co-op community with integrity, and have accomplished many tasks that my home co-op has benefited directly because of my aquired knowledge and skills. The co-op educational materials available to me over the years have been very helpful in accomplishing some of the difficult work as a "Watchdog" or someone that would scrutinize the ongoing business management of the co-op. 

 

Based on my observations, and communicating with other members from different co-ops, not enough members in this sector actively participate in this type of important work that may be the deciding factor that results in the success or possible failure of a housing co-op in this sector."

 

DIANE MILES posted message on January 16, 2006 

"Dear Ken,"...

 

"Your questions are quite reasonable. I will do my best to answer them in turn."... 

 

DAVID HOWARD message posted on January 16, 2006 

"After reading these postings and taking in to account the several warnings issued to Ken Hummel, I have decided to remove his posting privileges at this site. As many of you are aware, he was banned from the site earlier last year for bad behavior and then allowed back on condition that he take steps to not offend. He has failed to do this. It is my intention that his privileges will not be re-instated. 

 

I do not want this decision to chill the discussions here. Members should be aware that honest and respectful discussions are encouraged, even when they disagree with the majority opinion. Mr. Hummel was sent away because he could not find it within himself to treat others here with respect. Some of you may feel that we took too long to act. For this I apologize, but it does point out that we do not take these decisions lightly. 

 

If anyone disagrees with this decision, please refer to "Netiquette and Rules of Order" just to the left. These you will find the steps you can take to challenge this decision." 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN message posted on January 16, 2006 

"Dave, I think you bent over backwords for Ken and he just kept prodding and pushing boundaries. You did the only thing that you could in circumstances and you have my complete support." 

 

MARILYN GALLAGHER message posted on January 17, 2006 

"David, Thank you. I have not responded to any of Ken's postings. I was not prepared to waste my time and energy on someone who does not want to listen and is bent on causing trouble. I am so glad that we can now get back to doing what we do best, helping one another." 

 

 

Do #YouHoldtheKey that helps explain why a #CHFCanada #CoopHousingCrunch exist!    

   

Information may be revised, added or deleted without notification

Ken Hummel, Administrator, CHIE